Zelenskyy on how Putin thinks - clip from Lex Fridman Podcast #456 with Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Guest bio: Volodymyr Zelenskyy is the President of Ukraine. This episode is available in English, Ukrainian, and Russian. Captions and voice-over audio tracks are provided in English, Ukrainian, Russian, and the original mixed-language version, with subtitles available in your preferred language. To listen to the original mixed language version, please select the English (UK) audio track audio track. The default is English overdub.

You said that there's some things about the war that maybe Americans don't understand. So we talked about Putin, we talked about the security guarantees, but the reality of war, what's happening on the ground, what do you think that people should understand? First of all, they have to understand the idea of Putin's war. It is very important for him. I consider this process. I think it is very important for him not to give Ukraine independence. To prevent Ukraine from developing as an independent country, for him, influence, influence on Ukraine cannot be lost. And for him, it is, you know, like, I think for him, this is such a goal. And this last mile, and certainly for him, the last mile and of his political life. And I think that this is the goal for him. The second story, I do not want to talk about these banalities that he wants to return all the territories of the Soviet Union, influence over them. He does this little by little. I just don't want to. People need to know details. For example, Georgia, which was headed towards the EU and NATO, completely turns towards Russia regardless of the fact that they have frozen conflicts. They have in Abkhazia what we have with Donbass, which is controlled by militant rebels. Abkhazia is not developing. It's just a part, a very beautiful part of Georgia that has died. And if you have the opportunity, then go there someday. You will understand it simply died because Putin wanted to. He wanted not to allow them to develop because a frozen conflict means that you will not be accepted in the EU and certainly will not be accepted into NATO. Because right now, yes, they do not take you because of a frozen conflict. And this is what Putin did. It's very important for him not to lose this influence. That is, he turned back Georgia, young people, students, everyone leaves. And this is a fact. Georgia is quite small and they will leave. They want to live in Europe. They want to develop somebody in the United States, somebody in Europe, somebody in the EU, somebody in Britain. He will now fight for the Moldovan parliament. This is his second step. You will see in April what happens. You will see. Oh, he will start turning Moldova away, away from Europe, although they want to go there. He does not care. He will be a pro-Russian party and they will do something with the current president because she she has she has won the elections. She is pro-European. But he he will turn this back. The next steps are completely clear. He will do everything wherever he has lost influence, where there was influence, influence of the Soviet Union. He'll turn it back as much as possible. And we understand at what price you have seen Syria. You saw these tortures, what we saw in Bucha, what we saw everywhere we came and where our territories were occupied in Syria. The same happened. There were a thousand people there and you have seen it. Scientists were found. Doctors were found. It is clear that any people are capable of generating their own opinion. Show their skills, develop society. Everyone who can express an opinion, everyone who can shape the independence and maturity of society, such people are not needed. And he wants this in Ukraine. And therefore, everyone should understand that Ukraine is like a large wall. From that Europe, and if God willing, President Trump does not withdraw from NATO. Because again, I believe that this is the biggest risk. I think two steps. Two steps that Putin would like to see is a weak NATO and this without Trump. And a weak Ukraine, which cannot survive on the battlefield, simply cannot survive and prevent me from building a strong relationship with Trump. I think these two steps leaving NATO and Ukraine's weakness will lead to a large scale war. Which Putin will wage on all the territories of that Europe post Soviet Europe. I mean, Soviet Europe, not post Soviet, but post World War Two period. That is Soviet Europe, Soviet era Europe. In order to completely control everything there. This is what he will do. And besides this, this will happen in any case, even if the U.S. is thinking about leaving NATO. This war will affect the United States because North Korea is the first sign. North Korean skills, North Korean knowledge, which they are now gaining from this war. These include mastering new technologies, large scale drones, missiles, how it works, the kind of technological war we have today, cyber war, etc. All these skills Korea will bring home and scale up in that region. And this will be a risk for the Pacific region. Security first and foremost. For Japan and for South Korea, they will face these risks 100 percent. And it will be clear that Taiwan will also have to face them. Without this. It is impossible. This is already happening. This is already happening. Therefore, I think that. President Trump has all power to stop Putin and give Ukraine strong security guarantees.